Last post I indicated I’ve been pretty much flat out like a lizard drinking. I wish more of it was on code!!
A number of things have changed these last few months. I somehow ended up elected a State Executive member of the Australian Democrats and a National Deputy President of the party as well. There’s some pre-selection things going on there I won’t go into presently in respect of the next Federal Election – which is going to be anywhere between March and November next year, with a decided possibility of middle of August – unless the Conservatives (Liberals) and the Socialists (Labor) magically come to some kind of agreement over climate change legislation. That the Greens are playing “my way or the highway” is pretty sad. Negotiate? Yer doin’ it wrong!
MixAction is still being coded. Ironically I released another application a few weeks ago that would have taken a little over a quarter of the time allocated to write MixAction last year in the June 30 day stint. More on that, which relates to the topic of this post, in a moment.
At the end of last month we bit the bullet and moved from sole trader status and incorporated. We have a nice shiny new company called “MixAction Software And Audio Pty Ltd”. For readers not from Australia that’s the approximate equivalent to an LLC.
There are distinct advantages and distinct disadvantages to this move. I won’t go into those here right now.
BoomerApp And Klik ‘n Mix
Klik n’ Mix is a little “party” mixing package aimed squarely at the non “disco” and “dance” crowd. It’s a B2C application, which goes against my own business principles quite a bit. It retails at two price points. The dreaded $29.99 that I’ve maligned so frequently and $49.99, an upsell that adds a range of audio tools. I wrote it because I was asked to write it by a person who does entertainment at parties and functions. This particular person is more entertainer than “DJ” and from experience there’s quite a few of those out there. It doesn’t beat mix and that’s reflected directly by the price. I’m saving my beat mixing algorithm for later – and a higer price point. 
Once written I figured I might as well market it and created the brand name and product site accordingly. You can visit the product site here: http://www.kliknmix.com
I’m pretty sure it’s currently the only party music mixing package to feature the Microsoft Fluent UI – AKA “The Ribbon”. I suspect that particular differentiation is short lived.
As I said, I’ve been pretty full on time wise, so I’ve done very little marketing of the application. A few weeks ago however a new service was launched from the people who brought the world Bits du Jour. That service is BoomerApp. While Bits du Jour hands out full licences daily BoomerApp is instead a rebate system where-by the customer purchases in the normal way and recieves a rebate form which they return to FastSpring Ecommerce or a local representive.
FastSpring have a blog article on BoomerApp here:
The developer sets the rate of rebate for the offer. Given some interesting data on rebate return rates, which I will discuss later, the application is live right now and therefore probably best not to advertise business data to passing clients, I decided to go with the full 100% rebate. That is the client pays the full price and then can send in the rebate form to recieve the whole lot back. By my calculations I have little to lose by treating this as a promotional exercise and getting the application “out there”.
It’ll be interesting to see how it goes – and I will report back on it at the end of the promotion – it runs seven days, from today. The report I give will probably be percentage based and not dollar based – we’ll see…
Cheers!
Scott Kane
Hi Scott,
I am a regular reader of your blog. Another new product? I see why your blog is called “Recursive” ISV
In your post you wrote “Ironically I released another application a few weeks ago that would have taken a little over a quarter of the time allocated to write MixAction last year in the June 30 day stint.” … I’m not sure I understand … how long did it take you to write Klik ‘n Mix?
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Scott,
I am a regular reader of your blog. Another new product? I see why your blog is called “Recursive” ISV
In your post you wrote “Ironically I released another application a few weeks ago that would have taken a little over a quarter of the time allocated to write MixAction last year in the June 30 day stint.” … I’m not sure I understand … how long did it take you to write Klik ‘n Mix?
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Chris!
Aprox 6 days, coding 5, with 5th and 6th days including finishing off help, installer. Testing on the 5th & 6th with local assistance and a few ISV’s. Concurrent with that was website and logo design.
Seriously??? 6 days! If so, I’m humbled and impressed. The reason I ask is that I too am working on a s/w product geared towards gardening. I first heard about your product MixAction on Joel on Software forum while you were still building it. That is how I got interested in your blog. I started my app in Sept 09 and I’m still a ways off from version 1.0. Is it safe to say that you were able to leverage MixAction when you built your latest? I’m trying to get a sense of the real world. Since I work full time as a web developer I can only make small consistent steps of progress each week on my product.
On a side note, I’m looking down the road to my next product (I guess I want to be recursive too
), again, with a product geared towards small farms. I really like the MixAction and Klik ‘n Mix interfaces. I am wondering, did you build your own panels or are you using a third-party control. If so, may I ask which one? Also, are you using WPF or is it WinForms?
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Chris!
Aprox 6 days, coding 5, with 5th and 6th days including finishing off help, installer. Testing on the 5th & 6th with local assistance and a few ISV’s. Concurrent with that was website and logo design.
Seriously??? 6 days! If so, I’m humbled and impressed. The reason I ask is that I too am working on a s/w product geared towards gardening. I first heard about your product MixAction on Joel on Software forum while you were still building it. That is how I got interested in your blog. I started my app in Sept 09 and I’m still a ways off from version 1.0. Is it safe to say that you were able to leverage MixAction when you built your latest? I’m trying to get a sense of the real world. Since I work full time as a web developer I can only make small consistent steps of progress each week on my product.
On a side note, I’m looking down the road to my next product (I guess I want to be recursive too
), again, with a product geared towards small farms. I really like the MixAction and Klik ‘n Mix interfaces. I am wondering, did you build your own panels or are you using a third-party control. If so, may I ask which one? Also, are you using WPF or is it WinForms?
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Chris,
Thanks! MixAction is still in development, it’s changed a great deal from where I started out with it. Yes, the other products use the basic UI premises of MixAction and the core audio engine. Though they don’t come close to using all the features of the engine I’ve implemented. But then they don’t need too.
I find I get a lot more interest from the Business to Business market on products than on Business to Consumer. Something to keep in mind when developing. So farming, making a guess, may not on the surface seem as exciting as your other app – at the end of the day it’s the most likely product of the two to build on. Your mileage may vary though!
The primary components for UI in the product are designed by the Component Factory http://www.componentfactory.com/ Krypton Suite. I can’t recommend these higher if you’re using .Net. There are some other widgets I do write for the purpose and others are standard components I render.
Not using WPF yet as there’s not enough 3rd party support for my needs. Once that changes in the future I’m keen to look at it. So WinForms for now.
I might write an article on some of points you’ve raised and explain my take on them further in the near future.
Feel free to fire away with any other questions. Happy to answer where I can.
Hi Chris,
Thanks! MixAction is still in development, it’s changed a great deal from where I started out with it. Yes, the other products use the basic UI premises of MixAction and the core audio engine. Though they don’t come close to using all the features of the engine I’ve implemented. But then they don’t need too.
I find I get a lot more interest from the Business to Business market on products than on Business to Consumer. Something to keep in mind when developing. So farming, making a guess, may not on the surface seem as exciting as your other app – at the end of the day it’s the most likely product of the two to build on. Your mileage may vary though!
The primary components for UI in the product are designed by the Component Factory http://www.componentfactory.com/ Krypton Suite. I can’t recommend these higher if you’re using .Net. There are some other widgets I do write for the purpose and others are standard components I render.
Not using WPF yet as there’s not enough 3rd party support for my needs. Once that changes in the future I’m keen to look at it. So WinForms for now.
I might write an article on some of points you’ve raised and explain my take on them further in the near future.
Feel free to fire away with any other questions. Happy to answer where I can.
Scott,
).
So, I know MixAction started with a 30 day challenge … but, I’m curious, how long did it take to get to version 1? The one thing I’m struggling with is that I am basing so much of what I’m coding on assumptions. I mean, I don’t have the means or the time to fully analyze the market’s demand for what I am building. There are two other products out there that are very similar to what I am building. I can’t go into too much detail here. A lot of what I am doing is based on a hunch. As they say on Joel on Software, I am trying to solve a problem that is not currently being served well in the market place. That being said, it is B2C and I don’t imagine that it’ll be terribly lucrative. But, I am curious, do a lot of mISVs start with gut feeling that what they’re doing is the right thing??? You’ve said on your blog before that releasing to market soon is relative to how complex the project is. Well, I have that predicament and I have been disciplined about sticking to critical features and not getting off target. That being said, it’ll still be several months before I am nearing the point where I can deploy version 1. When you were working on MixAction; did you always feel like you were going to succeed at getting it to market? I’ve already had one failed attempt and I’m telling you it was a boat load of code and design work that didn’t really amount to anything. I guess that is why I’m cautious this time around and I am sticking to features that are important (shipping being one of them
Best regards,
Chris
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Chris,
MixAction is still unreleased – so technically it’s not at version 1.
There are several reasons for this. As I proceeded with the app it became apparent that my original target market were not as supportive of paying for such an application as the semi-pro end of the market. It became clear I needed to effect a compromise with a decided lean to semipro. Not an easy task. For this reason significant changes were required in how logic worked in it, the tasks it needed to perform and the layout of the GUI accordingly. While the GUI is similar to the pictures here it has changed a good deal.
I guess this statement kind of answers your question on coding based on assumptions.
With B2C it comes down, I’ve found, mostly to cost. More so than B2B. B2B want a problem solved in almost all instances and a higer percentage are prepared to pay to reduce their pain. B2C want their problem solved, too. But they don’t want to pay or pay much for it. They have been media-cated (educated) to expect “free software”. It’s a difficult position to start from in terms of marketing. Of course that’s a generalization and there are exceptions.
Secondly I’m a firm believer in software being priced at what’s it’s worth. Klik ‘ n Mix breaks my own rules on pricing. the price point is too LOW. It’s a filler application, it’s released more to exercise the code base than make a dollar. It’s not a business decision in terms of “this is our main product”. MixAction and another product fill that niche and both are higher priced – MixAction at $99 and the other at a little under $500 and then up.
Project complexity is multi faceted. Defining it is hard. What’s complex for one is not complex for another. What’s complex for another last year (or month) isn’t complex the next. It’s dependent on your net starting position. Kind of like a savings account. If you start at zero it takes longer to build up a nest egg and earn interest. Deposit a fair amount when you open it and you start earning interest right away. Writing code as an ISV is much the same.
Don’t feel bad about not shipping. I’ve almost gone to launch three times with MixAction and then stopped myself. I’m greatful I have. The product would not have filled the correct niche and under that scenario would potentially have suffered difficult to overcome dismissal by the sector it needs to target. That’s not to say hold off for ever and that’s not to discourage shipping early. You have to know and be prepared to learn more – your market.
Scott,
).
So, I know MixAction started with a 30 day challenge … but, I’m curious, how long did it take to get to version 1? The one thing I’m struggling with is that I am basing so much of what I’m coding on assumptions. I mean, I don’t have the means or the time to fully analyze the market’s demand for what I am building. There are two other products out there that are very similar to what I am building. I can’t go into too much detail here. A lot of what I am doing is based on a hunch. As they say on Joel on Software, I am trying to solve a problem that is not currently being served well in the market place. That being said, it is B2C and I don’t imagine that it’ll be terribly lucrative. But, I am curious, do a lot of mISVs start with gut feeling that what they’re doing is the right thing??? You’ve said on your blog before that releasing to market soon is relative to how complex the project is. Well, I have that predicament and I have been disciplined about sticking to critical features and not getting off target. That being said, it’ll still be several months before I am nearing the point where I can deploy version 1. When you were working on MixAction; did you always feel like you were going to succeed at getting it to market? I’ve already had one failed attempt and I’m telling you it was a boat load of code and design work that didn’t really amount to anything. I guess that is why I’m cautious this time around and I am sticking to features that are important (shipping being one of them
Best regards,
Chris
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Chris,
MixAction is still unreleased – so technically it’s not at version 1.
There are several reasons for this. As I proceeded with the app it became apparent that my original target market were not as supportive of paying for such an application as the semi-pro end of the market. It became clear I needed to effect a compromise with a decided lean to semipro. Not an easy task. For this reason significant changes were required in how logic worked in it, the tasks it needed to perform and the layout of the GUI accordingly. While the GUI is similar to the pictures here it has changed a good deal.
I guess this statement kind of answers your question on coding based on assumptions.
With B2C it comes down, I’ve found, mostly to cost. More so than B2B. B2B want a problem solved in almost all instances and a higer percentage are prepared to pay to reduce their pain. B2C want their problem solved, too. But they don’t want to pay or pay much for it. They have been media-cated (educated) to expect “free software”. It’s a difficult position to start from in terms of marketing. Of course that’s a generalization and there are exceptions.
Secondly I’m a firm believer in software being priced at what’s it’s worth. Klik ‘ n Mix breaks my own rules on pricing. the price point is too LOW. It’s a filler application, it’s released more to exercise the code base than make a dollar. It’s not a business decision in terms of “this is our main product”. MixAction and another product fill that niche and both are higher priced – MixAction at $99 and the other at a little under $500 and then up.
Project complexity is multi faceted. Defining it is hard. What’s complex for one is not complex for another. What’s complex for another last year (or month) isn’t complex the next. It’s dependent on your net starting position. Kind of like a savings account. If you start at zero it takes longer to build up a nest egg and earn interest. Deposit a fair amount when you open it and you start earning interest right away. Writing code as an ISV is much the same.
Don’t feel bad about not shipping. I’ve almost gone to launch three times with MixAction and then stopped myself. I’m greatful I have. The product would not have filled the correct niche and under that scenario would potentially have suffered difficult to overcome dismissal by the sector it needs to target. That’s not to say hold off for ever and that’s not to discourage shipping early. You have to know and be prepared to learn more – your market.
Hi Scott,
Thanks for your response and the “words of wisdom”. I didn’t originally mean for my post to turn into a dialog, but, I am glad it did. Two years ago I was more of a spectator of those who have started mISVs. Your MixAction product was one of the products I started following. For the last year I have been intensely focused on making it a reality and not a spectator sport.
In regards to MixAction I was under the impression it was released, but, I never clicked the “buy now” button
… the site seems so professional I assumed it was up and running.
I agree whole heartedly with your advice on not shipping until you’re ready. As I said earlier there are two products out there that are similar to the one I am working on. I’ve tried them both and I was “turned off” because I feel they were incomplete. As a consumer I didn’t purchase the product because I didn’t think it was complete. I read reviews, by others, of the existing products and found others felt the same way. Those opinions stay on forums forever. So, what does that do for the product’s reputation? So, it is a tough call, does one release early and get “some sales” or wait and build a better product which will garner a better reputation. I think you’ve already given me your opinion on that and I respect it.
In regards to coding based on assumptions, I can see your point. You hit the nail right on the head. In your case you couldn’t necessarily anticipate the demand correctly because that information was not readily available. Experience taught you that. Luckily, you have an alternative to fine tune your product for a more receptive market. I think I chose B2C, contrary to the warnings (Joel on Software) and full aware of the low price point for one simple reason. I thought I stood a better chance of completing a simpler applicaton than a more complex one. That is based on the assumption that B2B apps tend to be more complex. I mean consider the Bingo Card Creator (one of the other apps in your 30 day challenge) … Patrick succeeded at that and was able to continue to also work full time. I’m not sure what the future will bring, but, I hope to be able to tackle a more sophisticated product in the future.
I agree with you when you say “If you start at zero it takes longer to build up a nest egg and earn interest. Deposit a fair amount when you open it and you start earning interest right away. Writing code as an ISV is much the same.
“. My first attempt taught me many things. The most important lesson I learned is to focus on progress not perfection. So, in a little over 3 months I think I’ve gained more ground than I did the first time through (which took much longer).
Besides my struggle with coding on assumptions there are two other areas where I need advice. The first is that I am currently heads down coding my product. So much so, that I rarely give any thought to any of the other issues involved with running a mISV. I know there is so much more to having a mISV than the product itself. There is the website, finances, licenses (or in my case subscriptions), hosting, taxes, etc., etc.. I figure, if I don’t have a product then all else is not needed. But, now I see a boatload of work down the road once I get to version 1. Should I be working on these other facets or should I just wait?
The second big issue is that I have localized my app (Silverlight 3) and I intend to market it internationally (well, to other countries beside the U.S.). My thought is that people have vegetable gardens (that is the intended market) all over the world. I have localization down pretty good. But, frankly, it adds a lot of extra work to everything I do. But, I think if I wait to localize it later it will be much harder. So, I continue to do everything with the notion that I can automatically switch the whole app to be Spanish, or French, or whatever, based on the user’s locale. I would be interested to hear your advice on whether I should continue or put off localization until later. Not only that, but, I have no clue how I will market the product in other countries.
See, this stuff isn’t easy; is it?
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Scott,
Thanks for your response and the “words of wisdom”. I didn’t originally mean for my post to turn into a dialog, but, I am glad it did. Two years ago I was more of a spectator of those who have started mISVs. Your MixAction product was one of the products I started following. For the last year I have been intensely focused on making it a reality and not a spectator sport.
In regards to MixAction I was under the impression it was released, but, I never clicked the “buy now” button
… the site seems so professional I assumed it was up and running.
I agree whole heartedly with your advice on not shipping until you’re ready. As I said earlier there are two products out there that are similar to the one I am working on. I’ve tried them both and I was “turned off” because I feel they were incomplete. As a consumer I didn’t purchase the product because I didn’t think it was complete. I read reviews, by others, of the existing products and found others felt the same way. Those opinions stay on forums forever. So, what does that do for the product’s reputation? So, it is a tough call, does one release early and get “some sales” or wait and build a better product which will garner a better reputation. I think you’ve already given me your opinion on that and I respect it.
In regards to coding based on assumptions, I can see your point. You hit the nail right on the head. In your case you couldn’t necessarily anticipate the demand correctly because that information was not readily available. Experience taught you that. Luckily, you have an alternative to fine tune your product for a more receptive market. I think I chose B2C, contrary to the warnings (Joel on Software) and full aware of the low price point for one simple reason. I thought I stood a better chance of completing a simpler applicaton than a more complex one. That is based on the assumption that B2B apps tend to be more complex. I mean consider the Bingo Card Creator (one of the other apps in your 30 day challenge) … Patrick succeeded at that and was able to continue to also work full time. I’m not sure what the future will bring, but, I hope to be able to tackle a more sophisticated product in the future.
I agree with you when you say “If you start at zero it takes longer to build up a nest egg and earn interest. Deposit a fair amount when you open it and you start earning interest right away. Writing code as an ISV is much the same.
“. My first attempt taught me many things. The most important lesson I learned is to focus on progress not perfection. So, in a little over 3 months I think I’ve gained more ground than I did the first time through (which took much longer).
Besides my struggle with coding on assumptions there are two other areas where I need advice. The first is that I am currently heads down coding my product. So much so, that I rarely give any thought to any of the other issues involved with running a mISV. I know there is so much more to having a mISV than the product itself. There is the website, finances, licenses (or in my case subscriptions), hosting, taxes, etc., etc.. I figure, if I don’t have a product then all else is not needed. But, now I see a boatload of work down the road once I get to version 1. Should I be working on these other facets or should I just wait?
The second big issue is that I have localized my app (Silverlight 3) and I intend to market it internationally (well, to other countries beside the U.S.). My thought is that people have vegetable gardens (that is the intended market) all over the world. I have localization down pretty good. But, frankly, it adds a lot of extra work to everything I do. But, I think if I wait to localize it later it will be much harder. So, I continue to do everything with the notion that I can automatically switch the whole app to be Spanish, or French, or whatever, based on the user’s locale. I would be interested to hear your advice on whether I should continue or put off localization until later. Not only that, but, I have no clue how I will market the product in other countries.
See, this stuff isn’t easy; is it?
Best regards,
Chris
Hi Chris,
Sorry for the delay in responding. It’s been bedlam here.
Patrick is an interesting case. Yes BCC is B2C. Yes, Patrick has had a, to be respected, measure of success. But I can’t help but wonder, given Patrick’s talents, if that success would have been greater if he focussed on B2B.
With the facets to work on issue. It’s a tough one. I’m “self funded” in a sense, so I do what I do pretty much full time. Because my focus is primarily B2B I was aware from past experience that they simply distrust sole traders and prefer to deal with an incorporated entity – a registered company. So for me it was essential. With websites – it’s never to early. The best method in my humble opinion is a CMS. My favorite for single product sites is WordPress. Joomla! is cool too, but pretty heavy for single product sites. Most of my software sites are WordPress. It makes building them quick and easy and the SEO when done right is automatic and a killer. Taxes are a fact of life. I’d rather pay them than have to worry about not paying them. Hosting is complex. I have 15 websites, plus a few clients. So I use several servers. VPS and a shared reseller account. What I place where depends on region mostly and then load.
To my mind the more issues you have under control when you launch the more likely you are to start a business as opposed to a fellow with a product or two. Most developers trying to break in as ISV’s fall into the latter category and most fail.
Hi Chris,
Sorry for the delay in responding. It’s been bedlam here.
Patrick is an interesting case. Yes BCC is B2C. Yes, Patrick has had a, to be respected, measure of success. But I can’t help but wonder, given Patrick’s talents, if that success would have been greater if he focussed on B2B.
With the facets to work on issue. It’s a tough one. I’m “self funded” in a sense, so I do what I do pretty much full time. Because my focus is primarily B2B I was aware from past experience that they simply distrust sole traders and prefer to deal with an incorporated entity – a registered company. So for me it was essential. With websites – it’s never to early. The best method in my humble opinion is a CMS. My favorite for single product sites is WordPress. Joomla! is cool too, but pretty heavy for single product sites. Most of my software sites are WordPress. It makes building them quick and easy and the SEO when done right is automatic and a killer. Taxes are a fact of life. I’d rather pay them than have to worry about not paying them. Hosting is complex. I have 15 websites, plus a few clients. So I use several servers. VPS and a shared reseller account. What I place where depends on region mostly and then load.
To my mind the more issues you have under control when you launch the more likely you are to start a business as opposed to a fellow with a product or two. Most developers trying to break in as ISV’s fall into the latter category and most fail.